--- Log opened Thu Aug 01 00:00:06 2013
04:59 < mcallan> offlist pointer to warner's "publics and counterpublics" (2005 book, 2002 essay): http://knowledgepublic.pbworks.com/f/warnerPubCounterP.pdf
08:26 < conseo> is this your best reference text?
09:10 < mcallan> not sure, i mentioned it because it was off-list.  wanted to share
09:33 < conseo> you are not sure about your theory? i could lay out why it avoids the crucial points and how it contradicts itself or resolves contradictions by just turning the term "public" into almost everything that can be (and hence adding little to discourse theory). just substitute it with "weltgeist" and it will match pretty good....
09:35 < conseo> it even has negativity resolved in "counterpublics" and all forms of inclusion of contradictions, but is weaker than dialectics, because it relativizes them instead of showing how they evolve through history (it is pretty much without any reference to history or social struggle)
09:39 < conseo> (again, as discourse theory it is similar and at the same time more abstract and weaker to foucault's discourse theory, which was an open attack on dialectics, hegel and marxism by claiming discourses and power (relation between power and knowledge drawn from nietzsche) were ahistorical formations just following each other without evolving into each other)
09:45 < conseo> it even relativizes althusser's prototype text for discourse theory, by saying that a policeman calling you out with "hey you" would not be discourse but personal. very funny, because actually police is a social ruling instrument executing the discourse of the ruling class (about criminals and what is criminal) and is rarely "personal". althusser points it out to show how deep ideology is anchored by accepting the
09:45 < conseo>  address at first and to radicalize critical theory, but opens ofc. this kind of discoursive idealism
09:46 < conseo> have you read althusser?
09:59 < conseo> http://marxists.org/reference/archive/althusser/1970/ideology.htm
10:01 < mcallan> not yet
10:05 < conseo> ok, i just wanted to point it out, have read it some time ago, but having a look at it, now it might be interesting to do so again
10:14 < conseo> i'll take a nap, bbl
--- Log closed Fri Aug 02 00:00:23 2013