--- Log opened Sun Apr 14 00:00:46 2013
05:21 < conseo> mcallan: it depends. if the content matters to me, definitely.
05:24 < conseo> so in this case, yes, unless metagovernment wants some content presented in a pseudo-neutral fashion. e.g. talk about anonymous voting and nash-equilibrium of vilfredo for instance. i am not interested in that but rather in the social problems and reaching people who share the problems, not the solutions.
05:25 < conseo> the advantage with occupy was that i could present votorola in the understanding i have gained through our discussions of the social problems and the understanding of the solutions
05:27 < conseo> i am ok with presenting metagovernment and i will share an overview before and probably a recording afterwards if possible, but i don't want to be told to reproduce all the ideological differences in metagov, it will be horrible for me and the audience
05:28 < conseo> pietro also hasn't shared his presentation beforehand, so this should be ok. i will still present the different projects ofc. just to point out what worried me before i could reply here
05:31 < conseo> serapath: it was in german, but i could have done it in english anyway, as i know most of the vocabulary better through the discussions and international projects
05:34 < conseo> mcallan: also i think it is good if u don't like presenting for the sake of itself. it still can be worth to reach out, even if you prefer to actually produce stuff and work on it than talking about it
05:34 < conseo> mcallan: i can imagine that u could present it well, at least your argumentation in discussions is understandable and you could just explain and reproduce that in a presentation
05:35 < conseo> i know u don't like it, but i think it might help unless u don't try to jump on every train passing by
05:54 < mcallan> okay, cool.  speaking for myself, i feel pretty sure.  i won't likely agree to give any presentations in future.  it's just not for me
05:56 < conseo> ok. there is just not a lot to it. if you can relate to your audience, you just try to communicate what u are working on. no advertisement or special presentation skillz necessary if you don't want to sell something
06:08 < mcallan> well, if someone leads, i might follow
06:28 < serapath> this is the facebook page of TEDx Rhein Main https://www.facebook.com/TEDxRheinMain?ref=stream
06:28 < serapath> The founder is Darren Cooper
06:28 < serapath> https://www.facebook.com/dc7590?fref=ts
06:31 < serapath> website: http://www.tedxrheinmain.de/blog/
06:59 < conseo> mcallan: home.html still takes 20s+ to load with me
07:00 < conseo> i can see the background graphic draw sequentially
07:00 < conseo> serapath: how quick does the votorola homepage load for you?
07:01 < conseo> mcallan: also you should get a touch-device (either smart-phone or tablet, there is a lot of changes and weird issues). the hud in mobile firefox for instance is pinned on the site for the talk track. it does not hide again with tapping a message dot
07:02 < conseo> i have an older android smartphone (htc desire s) with an up-to-date android rom now
07:08 < conseo> http://zelea.com/project/votorola/d/practice/3-act/law/prepare-110dpi.png is taking 16 s
07:09 < conseo> stage is taking 14s, starting after 3s: http://zelea.com/y/vw/votorola.s.gwt.stage.StageIn/8E84632408ABA26EF8F29F2D61FAE703.cache.js
07:17 < conseo> it is loading a lot in parallel with them
07:18 < mcallan> conseo: just addressing the timing problem, because i cannot afford time/money to support mobiles at this point...
07:20 < mcallan> we don't need fast page load, but fast rendering of first text.  images should no longer hold up that rendering, like they used to.  how long (from clean cache, ctrl-shift del) till you see first text?
07:22 < conseo> 3-5s
07:23 < mcallan> i measured 4, so that's cool.  user can start reading while images and stage load in background
07:23 < mcallan> that's best we can possibly do, without speeding up my isp connection, etc
07:24 < mcallan> http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2013-April/001690.html
07:26 < mcallan> thx for checking c...
07:27 < mcallan> if necessary, i might get mobile emulator and debug.  but i feel i have to move forward on coding, or we are stalled completely
07:28 < mcallan> but u are right, it's definitely a concern.  lots of tablets out there, these days
07:57 < conseo> right. if u can break the tasks in a way that i can help, then tell me. i am still busy, but i'd like to get more familiar with the code base still, but without interfering with your design decisions
08:52 < mcallan> thx c, two possible worries you could take on:
08:53 < mcallan> (1) disable stage for all but supported platforms, desktop firefox and chrome
08:54 < mcallan> (2) testing of safari, if possible, to add support for that
09:15 < serapath> http://zelea.com/project/votorola/d/practice/3-act/law/prepare-110dpi.png (needed 15 sec)
09:15 < serapath>  http://zelea.com/y/vw/votorola.s.gwt.stage.StageIn/8E84632408ABA26EF8F29F2D61FAE703.cache.js (needed 2 sec)
09:16 < serapath> http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2013-April/001690.html (needed 8 sec)
09:20 < serapath> by the way, i have more free time now then a few months or even weeks back.
09:20 < serapath> i'd like to try to help, but am pretty confused about votorola and adjacent projects, because u post so many links on the mailinglist showing different stuff and the documentation is very huge...
09:20 < serapath> I don't want to write java but i'm currently learning javascript (clientside & serverside) and i also experiment with cordova (phonegap), having an android smartphone and android tablet next to my windows8 desktop machine.
09:20 < serapath> on the desktop, i run opera, firefox, IE and chrome.
09:20 < serapath> if u have some minor tasks for me to experiment with, without being overwhelmed right away, would be great :-)
09:20 < serapath> btw, javascript serverside means nodejs.org
09:22 < serapath> on thursday (1:30 pm) i'll meet with marc @ Commerzbank Cantina :-) ... dont know what we will talk about, but he mentioned he wanted to improve international collaboration, thus, he probably will say something about metagov too, but... i'll see ;-)
09:27 < conseo> mcallan: ok
09:38 < mcallan> serapath: things we need (best i can foresee) are the three things in the red want ads here: http://zelea.com/project/votorola/home.html
09:39 < mcallan> i'm hopeful marc will agree to the joint development, and thankful for your help in the list
09:40 < mcallan> without a manager, we have no ability to assign tasks to people.  all we can do is post these want ads, press on with our work, and hope for the best
09:42 < mcallan> myself, for example, i'm supposed to be coding pipes.  practice trials are held up, till i do that
09:43 < mcallan> but if marc is okay with the idea, then i switch to coding joint development.  because that will bring us resources (manager, developers, the whole works)
09:44 < mcallan> so, anything you can do related to those 3 ads would be very helpful
11:08 < serapath> i guess marc might do so. maybe the best thing would be to start my own project then.
11:08 < serapath> Funny thing is, what AG MFT tries to accomplish is not a too, but rather something similar to votorola. there is already three  projects (probble, qKonsens and fundiert-entscheiden) which are primary voting projects and there is an ontology and an approach (a spreadsheet exists) where all these projects try to map parts of their functionality to each others project ....that's probably the vote-mirroring-thing
11:12 < serapath> i have an idea for a "primary voting project". i feel in structure its very similar to votorola itself, but can't say that for sure. Thats why i thought, maybe its possible, instead of trying to do that from scratch, i could use votorolas infrastructure and do a frontend for it, but maybe i'm wrong
11:14 < serapath> if u have anything i could tell marc, maybe an idea of how that collaboration should move forward (because vote mirroring might be hard, because the "framework" of AG MFT is not a primary voting project in itself, it enables "vote mirroring" between real primary voting projects through the "ontology mapping" approach), then tell me, so i could mention it
11:24 < mcallan> i'll post a reply to you guys in a few minutes.  i also wonder what marc thinks about details, but maybe best if we all talk by mumble.  i will mention that in the post
11:26 < mcallan> (u are welcome to use votorola stuff, and we'll try to help.  but recommend you work within existing projects unless u really need to take one in a different direction.  the workload is huge)
14:39 < conseo> mcallan: destruction of the party but only in its isolated form, but giving it at the same time potentially unlimited reach and its ideas as a democratic party a higher form of expression
--- Log closed Mon Apr 15 00:00:03 2013