--- Log opened Wed Mar 27 00:00:54 2013
10:08 < conseo> mcallan: ping
10:09 < Phoebus> o/
10:15 < conseo> Phoebus: what does this mean? :-)
10:15 < Phoebus> \o/
10:15 < Phoebus>  |
10:15 < Phoebus>  / \
10:16 < Phoebus> Stands for hello :P
10:16 < Phoebus> But you're German so you may get other ideas ^_^
10:34 < conseo> haha
10:34 < conseo> nope, not really
10:34 < conseo> hello!
10:36 < conseo> you are from Greece right?
10:39 < conseo> bbl
11:01 < Phoebus> Yeah.
11:29 < mcallan> conseo: pong
11:30 < mcallan> \ /
11:30 < mcallan>  |
11:31 < mcallan>  /o\
11:34 < conseo> Phoebus: ok
11:34 < conseo> mcallan: u turned it from the feet on the head :-P
11:36 < conseo> Phoebus: i have followed some grass-levels organisations and a move to the countryside in greece, but have little information of on the ground situation, besides the right-wing instrumentalisation of immigrants and sharpening of conflict
11:36 < mcallan> (yes, i'm feeling frisky today :-)
11:36 < conseo> Phoebus: what is ur perspective on the situation? (maybe a link or so?)
11:39 < conseo> mcallan: have u time to skype?
11:39 < conseo> or mumble...
11:40 < mcallan> sure, in 20 min?
11:40 < mcallan> or mumble in 50 min
11:42 < conseo> yes
11:42 < conseo> mumble then
11:42 < conseo> (if it works for you)
11:42 < mcallan> okay, will ping when it's config'd
11:46 < conseo> ok
11:47 < conseo> Phoebus: i guess anti-german ressentiments are going strong, esp. with the german-greek history of wwii and before
11:52 < conseo> but official media ridiculously simplify and instrumentalise the picture. it is difficult to get critical in-depth information here even from left and critical organisations as the overall economical situation (esp. the european banking sector) is in turmoil
11:53 < Phoebus> Judging from your topic selection, you rely heavily on mainstream media.
11:53 < Phoebus> And yes, they suck there as much as they suck here.
11:53 < Phoebus> That aside, I don't know what you're on about... grass-levels??
11:54 < conseo> grass-roots level
11:54 < Phoebus> Right.
11:54 < Phoebus> Well I'min PPGR.
11:54 < Phoebus> *I'm in.
11:54 < Phoebus> We do what we can, but most people are stuck in the old political system.. and the media.
11:54 < Phoebus> Or rally, and get pushed back to the couch and tv-brain-frier.
11:55 < conseo> i am wondering what economical organisational changes are going on. people have to deal with everyday needs and it is difficult to criticize a situation against the dynamics of the economy
11:56 < conseo> in what way do you think my picture is framed by main-stream media?
11:56 < Phoebus> <Phoebus> Judging from your topic selection
11:56 < conseo> sure
11:56 < Phoebus> <conseo> Phoebus: i guess anti-german ressentiments are going strong, esp. with the german-greek history of wwii and before
11:56 < Phoebus> "besides the right-wing instrumentalisation of immigrants and sharpening of conflict"
11:57 < conseo> well, the rise of right-wing parties in elections was not an invention of mass-media, was it?
11:57 < Phoebus> No, but investing heavily in it is...
11:57 < Phoebus> They are the joke here.
11:57 < Phoebus> People voted for them out of spite for the old parties.
11:57 < Phoebus> Pretty much it.
11:58 < conseo> well, the nazis have been a joke here as well in the 20s
11:58 < conseo> but they promise a certain kind of solution...
11:58 < conseo> but good to here that.
11:58 < conseo> hear
11:59 < conseo> Phoebus: on what are u working as a party? some bigger software/infrastructural plans (like p2p, open democracy, etc.)?
11:59 < Phoebus> Yeah, we're workig on concepts right now.
11:59 < Phoebus> Had a mini conference a month ago, went well.
11:59 < Phoebus> We need more talks.
12:00 < Phoebus> We went through 25 different software platforms out there...
12:00 < Phoebus> Then discussed what concepts we liked best, how to best put it together.
12:00 < Phoebus> Perhaps bringing everyone into the picture to speed dev time.
12:00 < conseo> ok, do you have a description of the social problems u are trying to fix?
12:00 < Phoebus> Other tasks, volunteering, organizing, promoting etc.
12:01 < conseo> because the understanding of democracy seems to be very convoluted and it is very difficult to root it somewhere
12:01 < Phoebus> You could google translate: www.pirateparty.gr :)
12:02 < conseo> puuh, google translate on political/social topics...
12:02 < Phoebus> :D
12:02 < Phoebus> Well, I'm low on energy and you seem chatty.
12:02 < Phoebus> My hands literally hurt.
12:03 < conseo> do u have some social theory/critics? we for example relate to habermas and other critical thought, me personally also marx' critique of capital and the history of the labour movement (for practical reasons)
12:03 < conseo> ok
12:04 < conseo> we can continue at any time, i am just interested in good critique and u are closer to some of the problems than i am
12:05 < Phoebus> Maybe, maybe not. I just happened to be born here.
12:05 < Phoebus> If my family wasn't here, I wouldn't particularly care about the local issues more than world issues.
12:05 < Phoebus> And things, if you boil them down are common problems.
12:05 < Phoebus> Information control and dissemination vs mass one-way media.
12:05 < conseo> although i am at an industrial region of germany, which is the core of economic power atm.
12:06 < conseo> yes, but also the economy. it is in a weird state for quite some time now (at least since the 70s)
12:07 < conseo> and productivity literally hurts the economical development and speeds up deindustrialisation in many places
12:12 < conseo> well, but this is probably not what interests you. at least the pirate party here is very concerned about liberal freedoms, not so much about the economy.
12:12 < Phoebus> I am but you're only looking at one scope.
12:12 < Phoebus> And I don't have time right now.
12:12 < conseo> ok
12:12 < Phoebus> Any one model doesn't include the whole picture.
12:13 < conseo> i have no model
12:13 < Phoebus> <conseo> yes, but also the economy. it is in a weird state for quite some time now (at least since the 70s)
12:13 < Phoebus> <conseo> and productivity literally hurts the economical development and speeds up deindustrialisation in many places
12:13 < Phoebus> ^ economic development models.
12:13 < Phoebus> What is the economy for? To produce, sustain society yes?
12:14 < Phoebus> And there are many models to get this done.
12:14 < Phoebus> We've tried a few...
12:14 < Phoebus> Room for more trials.
12:14 < Phoebus> A new age of knowledge and information sharing is coming...
12:14 < Phoebus> We're just prepping the infrastructure.
12:15 < conseo> this is why i am asking for critical studies. it is very difficult to phrase terms like model, because u probably have some fixed understanding of it, that i don't have and vice versa
12:16 < conseo> the economy does not need a model
12:16 < conseo> imo
12:24 < mcallan> conseo: what's the server address, c?
12:24 < conseo> v.polyc0l0r.net
12:27 < conseo> Phoebus: for instance code = data. if an age of information sharing is coming, then also an age of code sharing is coming. code if taken to its extreme includes all processes, including the production of means of production and their results and so on. what can private property mean in such a situation?
12:31 < conseo> Phoebus: but don't get me wrong, i don't want to offend u in any way. i want to cooperate. i just think that criticism of each other helps in understanding how one can cooperate
12:32 < conseo> so thx for taking the time to argue with me :-)
12:36 < mcallan> conseo: will try to connect now...
12:36 < conseo> ok
12:38 < mcallan> not working...
12:39 < mcallan> let's go to skype, and you can help me
12:41 < conseo> mcallan: -> private messages
20:09 < conseo> mcallan: can pipes also be for committees?
--- Log closed Thu Mar 28 00:00:11 2013