--- Log opened Mon Mar 25 00:00:20 2013
07:17 < mcallan> ok
12:13 < conseo> mcallan: i am not against abstractions, it is only that they have to learned and proven through thorough and empirical criticisms of the whole process imo. ur abstractions are not too bad, but who am i to judge? only the social practice and its theoretical reflections can show where the contradictions and problems arise. insights have to be produced and this both involves theoretical and practical work (habermas also
12:13 < conseo>  relates to this classical marxist problem of the relationship between theory and practice)
12:15 < conseo> mcallan: lisp for instance is a good abstraction, because it doesn't abstract the real problems away, as e.g. java ee or complicated frameworks do. if i just had either theory or practice i would have stayed blind to it and not understood the value of its proper abstraction over computability
12:16 < conseo> just to take a non-social example, which turned my technical understanding from the head on the feet, as i was very much convinced of c++ (more so than java) before
12:27 < mcallan> okay...
12:28 < mcallan> but we both definitely agree that hands-on, feet-on-the-ground practice is the next step
12:28 < mcallan> (as soon as i get free of my knight commitments.  maybe tomorrow i can start coding again)
13:18 < conseo> sure, just not that you think i have some problems with abstractions or theory. it has to fit practice and is necessary to expand practice successfully or overcome substantial contradictions.
13:18 < conseo> i am keen on the pipes
13:18 < conseo> :-D
13:20 -!- edulix2 is now known as edulix
13:21 < mcallan> me too, and i'll be happy to get back to real work
--- Log closed Tue Mar 26 00:00:37 2013