--- Log opened Thu Feb 21 00:00:39 2013
13:31 -!- thomas is now known as Guest91249
14:45 < mcallan> i think today i will frame a Knight proposal about vote mirroring
14:48 < conseo> why?
14:48 < conseo> a separate one?
15:08 < conseo> ok, what have you planned to frame?
15:08 < mcallan> yes, separate...
15:09 < mcallan> vote mirroring as counter-monopoly, and invite other projects and stuff into the proposal. so hopefully we get a few to sign on before posting to knight
15:10 < mcallan> knight (and news people in general) are very big on freedom, openness and stuff, ofc
15:15 < conseo> yes, would be nice. you are doing this a first testing "balloon", whether projects would join?
15:15 < conseo> i don't think we can apply twice
15:18 < mcallan> sure, can apply twice
15:19 < mcallan> but balloon yes, only go it alone if nobody else interested
15:29 < mcallan> Guest91249 is thomas i think. he's having problem with his nickname, probably conflicting with a registered name (thomas)
15:41 < conseo> ok
18:13 < mcallan> key thing for vote mirroring is a visual, i think...
18:14 < mcallan> show at a glance how the user is trapped, then released from trap by mirroring
18:14 < mcallan> do a good job, and has good chance of winning i figure
18:19 < conseo> well, yea, it is always allowing your users to leave your project. i still think many people have problems with that
18:19 < conseo> (but it also makes your tool more attractive, although initially, when no cooperation exists, gains are low from cooperation)
18:20 < mcallan> knight foundation doesn't have problem
18:20 < conseo> i think the consensus breach problem, which basically defies assent tooling to come to a representative view of all participants, is crucial
18:21 < conseo> it is something you cannot step by or blame as being egoistic or specific to a certain voting mechanism/tooling
18:21 < conseo> you need to have open tooling, to have free expression of collective structure so to speak, it seems
18:23 < mcallan> true all that, but i feel the image of human freedom is the winner. save a lot of arguing. nobody can say a word against it
18:24 < mcallan> will post image when i'm done, hopefully tonight (but maybe not)
18:26 < conseo> hmm
18:27 < conseo> freedom is still very vague, i think that the structural problem has some logical strength to it
18:28 < conseo> also, if projects don't expose data, it might be hard to do anything more than scraping, so how will you do it for them?
18:28 < conseo> i am curious, will wait for your post
18:29 < mcallan> will show you when done. there's lots of time to change it
18:39 < conseo> ok
20:37 < conseo> gn8
22:04 < mcallan> n8 c
--- Log closed Fri Feb 22 00:00:57 2013