--- Log opened Thu Jan 10 00:00:05 2013
01:41 < mcallan> habermas is smarter than i, why not put him to work?  "Votorola is social software in support of public autonomy through communicative action. We develop the tools to enable a radically free, self-determined society in which plans of action are coordinated by large scale, open discussion aimed at mutual understanding and consensus."
01:43 < mcallan> (god, i love this work!)
06:26 < conseo> well, yes, but habermas is not practical in the economical sense. in fact he disqualifies a lot of the discourse. i think it shouldn't sound like a democratical experiment, but rather as a practical process
06:44 < mcallan> he gets practical in "Between facts and Norms" (Faktizitat und Geltung), his theory of law and politics.  law alone can penetrate into the economy with binding force
06:45 < mcallan> but i can't make the opening blurb perfect, and i want to move on.  so i just throw habermas in there for now
07:08 < conseo> no, the economy needs a structure and law comes out of it. that is why our modern idea of law exists. it wouldn't and hasn't without private property exchange, which has only become dominant in capitalism
07:09 < conseo> ok, i am ok with habermas and i think we need to start from a unified consensus, otherwise we can't deal with the economy
07:10 < conseo> also the economy in itself does not exist, but through our actions, so we need to reflect that on neutral grounds and not pragmatically only
07:11 < conseo> so i agree, since our structure is open and flexible it has the necessary quality to address the economy in collective terms
07:13 < conseo> we need to abolish the economy as a system of its own in the process, we cannot solve the economical problems in pure economical terms, as the economy always reflects all of society and does not exist without it
07:13 < conseo> it is determining only by itself preferring certain ideas and social organisations extending the economical success (profit) in this very historical category
07:14 < conseo> don't know if that makes sense to you
07:16 < mcallan> well, my fault for blabbing about this (habermas and theory), because none of it is important to the heart of the matter (practical procedure of using votorola).  i just happen to be reading theory and i see that our design fits it neatly (including the new procedures)
08:39 < mcallan> i'm off, c
09:00 < conseo> mcallan: ok, i agree and we need theory to talk about the process imo and that habermas fits very well.
09:00 < conseo> gn8
--- Log closed Fri Jan 11 00:00:22 2013