--- Log opened Mon Oct 08 00:00:58 2012
09:11 < conseo> mcallan: for endcandidates i trigger updates of forums linked on the endcandidates page. the user expects to find new messages when hitting the update button and in this case they would be in these forums. i could kick both the linked ones on the voter and candidate page in all cases, but we have defined the candidate forums as proper.
09:11 < conseo> is this ok?
09:26 < mcallan> conseo: i think so.  anyway, best start with simplest solution
09:32 < conseo> ok, i will do for the endcandidate, so user won't be confused by missing messages, but default is forums of candidate
09:34 < mcallan> conseo: sorry c, i misread.  i think candidate is best for starters, not end-c
09:34 < conseo> mcallan: no, i will always take candidate. but if you have selected an endcandidate and trigger the update it will fall back to the forums of the endcandidates position, because it would fail otherwise
09:40 < mcallan> hmmm, not sure i was thinking.  one wants to kick the forums of the currently displayed messages...
09:42 < mcallan> i mean that's the expectation, i guess; to refresh what's already in the track
09:43 < mcallan> only q then is, how convert list of messages -> list of forums
09:44 < conseo> yes
09:45 < mcallan> except what i originally proposed was different, and simpler, tho perhaps not adequate for user: http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2012-June/001388.html
09:47 < mcallan> i think i intended that track send to server the names of user and poll.  server then kicks forums defined by user, and user's candidate
09:48 < mcallan> only the poll name could vary, for a given user.  otherwise what's displayed in the track is irrelevant
09:48 < mcallan> (at least that was my proposal, i think)
09:50 < mcallan> i guess the idea was, the user only kicks only for *his* own local part of votespace
09:50 < conseo> (i am still at work, i read closely when i have time, don
09:51 < mcallan> ok
09:51 < conseo> it can take some time to reply)
09:52 < mcallan> sure.  it's a q of design at this point.  so u need time to think anyway
09:59 < conseo> yes
10:15 < conseo> i'll drive home now
10:15 < conseo> cu later
10:18 < mcallan> ok, cu
11:35 < conseo> re
11:47 < mcallan> i guess if you already have something coded, then simplest thing is to go with that.  we can try it and see how it goes
12:17  * mcallan was making a suggestion, not trying to end discussion
12:39 < conseo> mcallan: sure
12:39 < conseo> i was just wondering what i need to test before posting
12:55 < mcallan> sry, misunderstood.  you don't necessarily need manual kick.  you could release that subsequently.  just have to comment it out of the ui for now, to avoid confusion
13:01 < conseo> mcallan: we have agreed that the talktrack only filters the pollname of the stage not by actorname as well, right? this would be part of the highlighting problem i think, but am not sure
13:02 < conseo> well the button somehow closes the cycle and allows users to define forums link them on their pages and trigger harvests all by themselves
13:09 < mcallan> i don't think we finalized anything about filtering.  one thing for sure, you don't want to *set* actor on the stage
13:09 < mcallan> but filtering is also something that can be added and refined, once we see it running
13:11 < mcallan> if in doubt, i'd say post the minimal thing that's useful.  let the rest follow
13:12 < mcallan> (just disable/comment out what's unfinished, rather than releasing anything broken)
13:13 < conseo> ok, i think its pretty basic but no half-finished parts are hanging around
13:15 < conseo> i'll filter the messages out by actor as well and we will see if showing more messages would help
13:16 < conseo> mcallan: see here http://benjamin.polyc0l0r.net:8090/voff/w/Votespace?p=Mann!p!urgar&u=4consensus+WebDe
13:16 < conseo> and go too levels down in the votetrack, the messages disappear
13:16 < conseo> two levels
13:23 < mcallan> confirmed
13:24 < mcallan> is that from filtering?
13:28 < conseo> yes, it fetches the message list on each PropertyChange from the Stage
13:29 < conseo> my test accounts hit your spam filter for posts to the sandbox list: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from mail.zelea.com[76.10.173.209]: 550 5.1.1 <test2@polyc0l0r.net>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; from=<sandbox-bounces@zelea.com> to=<test2@polyc0l0r.net> proto=ESMTP helo=<mail.zelea.com>
13:32 < conseo> or is this my fault? they don't really have mailboxes here btw.
13:39 < mcallan> what mail are trying to send?  from whom to whom?
13:40 < conseo> i tried to send one from test2@polyc0l0r.net to demonstrate the update functionality
13:40 < conseo> to sandbox@zelea.com
13:56 < mcallan> ah, it only accepts messages from subscribers
13:57 < conseo> ok, then i will subscribe
13:57 < mcallan> let me know when you do that, and i'll clear the moderation bit
14:03 < mcallan> nvmind, i disabled moderation for now
14:05 < conseo> uups, already done. but my mail provider seems to be unreachable (maybe related to my spam escapade?)
14:10 < mcallan> ok, i cleared the mod bit on test2@polyc0l0r.net
14:11 < mcallan> re http://benjamin.polyc0l0r.net:8090/voff/w/Votespace?p=Mann!p!urgar&u=4consensus+WebDe
14:12 < mcallan> conseo: that loads a new page for every nav, so track would fetch regardless
14:12 < conseo> ok
14:16 < conseo> ok, now hit the update button for http://havoc.zelea.com/w/User:Test2-Polyc0l0rNet/Mann/p/urgar (actor test2.. is relevant for update)
14:17 < conseo> i have subscribed test2, no problem to do so. if i need mass testing you can disable subscription temporarily
14:23 < conseo> for this to work test1 (candidate of test2) has to have the forum set on the position page as we agreed upon
14:25 < conseo> (or by requirement to name it technically)
14:26 < mcallan> i'm just on my way out for a quick run before the ag-etc mumble meet...
14:26 < conseo> ok
14:26 < mcallan> but i hit the button, and it worked!
14:26 < conseo> yes, and it shows 5 messages for test1 because it shares all the differences atm.
14:27 < conseo> i think that is fairly reasonable
14:27 < conseo> with this filter
14:27 < mcallan> about design of filtering and kick button, we probably need to speak if you want good feedback.  but ok to release anything you feel right about
14:27 < conseo> ok, cool
14:27 < mcallan> i'm off c, back in a while
14:28 < conseo> ok
16:12 < conseo> mcallan: i trigger a weird "reset" of the actorname. can you reproduce: 1) http://havoc.zelea.com/w/User:4consensus_WebDe/Mann/p/urgar 2) select test1 on votetrack 3) select any message and see that actorname and talktrack are reset to 4consensus
16:14 < conseo> i only set message and difference
16:24 < mcallan> yes, i see it too
16:24 < mcallan> (am in meeting)
16:43 < conseo> ok
17:08 < conseo> mcallan: indeed TalkTrack receives a PropertyChange("actorName") from Stage.i() after setting message and difference (selection in the view)
17:13 < mcallan> must be my fault...
17:22 < mcallan> conseo: i will look into it in a.m., see if i can find culprit
17:22 < conseo> thx!
18:00 < conseo> on votespace it is not reproducible, because it reloads the page when clicking a different actor in the votetrack
18:00 < conseo> on votetrack
18:05 < mcallan> right, and different scenes often work differently vs. stage...
18:06 < mcallan> i wasn't able to look today because of meeting, which just ended, but will look first thing in morning
18:06 < mcallan> (mumble is quite nice)
18:06 < conseo> i have committed, see TalkTrack.java:122 where i receive the event, if in interest
18:07 < conseo> how has the conference been?
18:07 < conseo> i like it too
18:08 < mcallan> positive, but somehow i can't find words... 
18:09 < conseo> is something concrete forming?
18:09 < mcallan> yes, i think so.  that's my first impression
18:09 < mcallan> hope you can attend next week
18:10 < mcallan> fellow behind this is presenting: https://makeyourlaws.org/
18:10 < mcallan> (each week is a different project/idea)
18:11 < mcallan> monday, 2130 your time
18:12 < conseo> yes, if they are really interested. last time nobody came to our list.
18:14 < conseo> hmm, about makeyourlaws.org, what is concrete there? they want legal approval for their legislative system? "We will handle the paperwork needed to get these truly voter-initiated propositions the official ballot for vote, once it has enough support that we believe it will have a shot at passing on election day." https://makeyourlaws.org/strategy
18:14 < mcallan> they are into cross-project stuff, very open, so i'm happy to follow them and join their list
18:14 < conseo> ok
18:14 < mcallan> (tho it's in german, they make an effort to reach out.  thx also to alex)
18:15 < mcallan> you germans are miles ahead...
18:15 < mcallan> so i follow
18:16 < conseo> well, depends. for me it is really important to get the rac usable soon, more important than vague cooperation, if the other project does not intend to put serious time in their effort.
18:17 < mcallan> not sure it'll be a drag on time.  but cross-project openness (not sure how to spell that) will *buy* us time...
18:18 < mcallan> and bring us other resources, all of which we need for the rac
18:18 < conseo> not if we cross-project with never-realising projects instead of getting some real use. it has to fit well
18:19 < mcallan> well, we should talk if you have concerns...
18:19 < conseo> maybe, but the economical aspect is still very important imo, at least we see it already working on the web with kickstarter.com and a lot of other sites acquiring resources.
18:20 < mcallan> ah, you are concerned about pirate's focus on politics
18:20 < mcallan> so we should talk...
18:20 < conseo> nope, i am thankful that you do it. it is just that i think it is really important to see the real potential of application. legal texts wish have to pass the same way through the current legal institutions first is very limited imo
18:21 < conseo> wish=which
18:21 < mcallan> right, i hear you.  i think we can't chat on this, because it's too complex...
18:22 < mcallan> also i am fading...
18:22 < conseo> yes and it is not urgent
18:22 < conseo> me too
18:23 < mcallan> ok, we pick up the thread tomorrow, or when we're both free
18:23 < conseo> it is just that i would like to get the rac working with something like the votetrack. i would be motivated to put some serious time into this.
18:23 < conseo> ok, good
18:23 < conseo> have a good night :-)
18:23 < mcallan> :-) good night, till soon
--- Log closed Tue Oct 09 00:00:15 2012