--- Log opened Fri Aug 03 00:00:07 2012
--- Log opened Fri Aug 03 06:23:48 2012
--- Log opened Fri Aug 03 06:25:18 2012
--- Log opened Fri Aug 03 06:27:16 2012
06:39 -!- You're now known as mcallan
--- Log opened Fri Aug 03 11:14:50 2012
13:08 < conseo> mcallan: well, i am ready to join you finally again
13:08 < conseo> how are things going on your side?
16:43 < mcallan> conseo: good news!  i've been too slow lately, and we need some forward momentum.  let's see ...
16:48 < mcallan> ... myself, i guess i have roughly 4 more days of upgrades (assuming we don't move to gwt 2.5rc), and then i'm finally back to coding.
16:59 < conseo> ok. was just catching up on the list. the cycles are beautiful
16:59 < conseo> i don't think we should automatically degrade votes as they coalesce
17:01 < conseo> we could do so for properties like "interest" if it is agreed to do so in the plan
17:08 < conseo> mcallan: (using a different counting method)
17:43 < mcallan> right, i think our vote mechanics are solid
17:58 < conseo> mcallan: how is your roadmap status?
18:14 < mcallan> the dates are now nonsense, but i hope to start on item 2 next: http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2012-June/001384.html
18:14 < mcallan> i think i will drop item 3, as it's not crucial
18:24 < conseo> ok
19:56 < conseo> i don't know about markov chains and have only basical knowledge of stochastical mathematics, yet i lack to see the motivation to apply it.
20:33 < mcallan> right, our count engine isn't broken, so no need to fix it.  we handle cycles just fine
21:14 < conseo> mcallan: why are your updates taking so long?
21:19 < mcallan> there's lots of them (hardware and software), and i am very slow at admin, and hate it.  the video is especially complicated (all done now) because i have 6 screens and (now) X rotation for the big ones, and custom window management software...
21:20 < mcallan> ... but it's almost done.  you should see my desktop!  where can I paste a giant screenshot? ...
21:21 < conseo> put in in my home folder of upload it to my machine
21:21 < conseo> my setup is limited to dual monitors atm.
21:24 < conseo> or upload
21:28 < mcallan> here it is: http://zelea.com/var/tmp-public/screens.png
21:29 < mcallan> it's messed up with echoes and stuff in the margins, where there is no physical screen
21:32 < conseo> yes, i have just noticed that. best would be to make a foto of you infront of your panorama ;-)
21:34 < conseo> looks like fun, although i personally don't mind running the overhead of a de for the convenience. i can see the benefits of custom setup though
21:35 < conseo> i have just played a bit for the first time with my raspberry pi, and openbox also seems sufficient for a "thin" working environment
21:40 < mcallan> yes, i use openbox myself
21:40 < mcallan> i also had optical backups to sort out (finally got my bluray burner working)...
21:42 < mcallan> and i decided it would be faster to keep the server running, than to transfer everything to my workstation, but it takes time to upgrade it so it can survive a few more years
21:45 < conseo> i can recommend ubuntu server and a libvirt setup for servers, very quick to setup and you can separate storage and connectivity on the host machine from separate groups of servers running on each virtual server
21:46 < conseo> i have cheap retail software with a low energy amd dual core and 4 disks in an encrypted md-raid. i have not thought that it would work out that good, but after once switching the mainboard it runs 24/7 all year
21:47 < conseo> i am just saying that, because i know that esp. on slower machines (servers running all the time), compiling takes forever
21:47 < conseo> and it interrupts service, which is a nogo imo
21:48 < conseo> funny that you have a bluray burner, i didn't knew that they are now supported
21:48 < mcallan> cool, true... but this server is not for production.  just for development purposes...
21:48 < conseo> i have another encrypted usb harddrive where i have to make backups with again soon
21:49 < conseo> ok, i don't care. i just fetch the installation image click through virt-manager for the new vm run debian/ubuntu/centos installer and have a server for my needs
21:49 < conseo> if i don't need it anymore i can just dump it and rearrange disk storage with lvm
21:50 < mcallan> cool.  i had the burner for 3 years, and couldn't get cdrecord to burn blu discs... but finally i put in the time, and it works now...
21:51 < conseo> but i understand, if the overhead of running a host is too high (esp. memory, cpu is almost 100% native performance with hypervisor tech), then it is a burden
21:51 < mcallan> (too upgrade the firmware, i had to shut down the server (obsidian) and install windows vista.  took a whole day for WindowsUpgrade to install 5 years of service packs, etc.)
21:51 < conseo> do you use some management process for your work? i have learned about psp and having a look into applying it to my personal work
21:52 < mcallan> (burner firmware)
21:52 < mcallan> psp?
21:52 < conseo> f*ck. windows is literally a pain, when you need all these steps just to run a firmware updater... i had that too already for laptop bioses
21:52 < conseo> personal software process
21:53 < conseo> it is like internalising management into your workflow
21:53 < conseo> mainly by using sound estimates of code size and needed work hours to measure performance and quality
21:53 < mcallan> no psp.  it took me 4 days to get that burner upgraded.  first i tried booting dos from optical disk...
21:53 < conseo> you also do reviews often and on all design docs
21:54 < conseo> that is insane... i have proprietary firmware
21:54 < conseo> hate
21:54 < mcallan> then realized it was too dangerous.  then tried usb dos boot (2 days) and could never get it to work...
21:54 < mcallan> finally installed windows, and left it sitting on giant old ide drive in the server
21:55 < conseo> yeah, i have spent days to get it to work properly as well, because you cannot quickly bootup a windows environment, run the upgrade routine and leave. you always have to install that damn thing exactly the way it wants
21:55 < conseo> with me xp has not detected the hard disk controller because it was too new....
21:55 < conseo> so no way of installing it
21:55 < conseo> i had to get windows 7 for it
21:56 < conseo> yeah, sounds like a similar approach, what you did
21:56 < conseo> this is an insane time sucker
21:56 < mcallan> yeah, it's nuts.  fortunately it only has to be done once a year.  almost done now
21:57 < conseo> i can install a full blown workstation setup on my laptop in less than an hour including ides, whole desktop environment and special apps for tech drawings and video cutting, but i need days to upgrade <5M firmware on some brand new device
21:58 < conseo> how do you estimate your schedule?
21:59 < mcallan> ... yes, it's only particular things that are the problem.  but my old hp scsi tape drive (vintage 1994!) died, and i needed a backup sol'n.  so i made the f*cker work
21:59 < mcallan> which sched?
21:59 < conseo> for example the outdated one. how have you calculated the dates for finishing the jobs?
22:01 < mcallan> gut feel, which i knew needs a 2-3X multiplier, but somehow i never apply it (unless i'm getting paid by the hour)
22:02 < conseo> ok
22:10 < mcallan> but now that you're back, it'll be easier to focus on coding to the exclusion of other temptations. :-)
22:11 < conseo> ok :-)
--- Log closed Sat Aug 04 00:00:58 2012