--- Log opened Thu Apr 05 00:00:47 2012
04:14 < conseo> mcallan: wow: http://www.portlandoccupier.org/2012/04/03/canadas-students-in-action/
11:08 < mcallan> ontario's tuition skyrocketed over ten years ago.  once instance of the erosion (albeit patchy) of the post-war social-welfare net
11:11 < mcallan> (one instance)
14:32 < conseo> :-\
15:14 < mcallan> conseo: how goes the battle on your front?
15:15 < conseo> working ok. i am just learning a bit over scrum
15:16 < conseo> you?
15:16 < mcallan> scrum?
15:19 < conseo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU0llRltyFM
15:21 < conseo> i think i'll try this out: http://kunagi.org/
15:25 < mcallan> i hope we can get more devs, once we get into beta.  i'm too much of a loner, not good company for this kind of thing
15:26 < conseo> i know, it is a pity, because it motivates to track progress
15:27 < conseo> also the burndown chart seems very nice
15:40 < mcallan> (watching video)
15:46 < mcallan> i don't know, that's for big teams, where managers want control.  but we do track progress, just not with special tools
15:47 < mcallan> i'm sprinting on remote wikis.  today i'll tackle the most difficult bit, which is maintaining a cross-site session
15:47 < mcallan> it's all part of the beta, and i announce each bit as i finish it
15:51 < conseo> sure, i find the splitting and parallelizing jobs in a trackable fashion interesting.
15:51 < conseo> ok
15:55 < mcallan> i think the crucial things (like the guy says) are the deliverables.  if you don't have a list of deliverables (running code that you plan to announce), then i can understand the attraction
15:56 < mcallan> for me, delivering those is what keeps me working.  and i kick up my heels after each one is done and announced.  if it was all one big blob, i'd die of burnout :-)
15:58 < conseo> me too
15:59 < conseo> i also find it interesting not only for us, but also as a way to organise production (and how votorola could interface with such a production): http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2012/04/extreme-manufacturing/
16:03 < mcallan> but you never posted your list of deliverables, so nobody knows what to expect next from your work
16:04 < conseo> yes
16:04 < mcallan> i just do all this informally, but sometimes a tool can help
16:05 < mcallan> what are you working to deliver next?
16:06 < conseo> i try to figure out how to store the forum configuration of the wiki in the harvester in a simple scalable way
16:06 < conseo> until yesterday i have fixed the wap
16:07 < conseo> and i need to think about the db layout, since i store too much string data (like the diff-url) in there
16:07 < mcallan> fixing the bug is a deliverable because we can see it, but i mean a *deliverable* for the harvester
16:07 < mcallan> deliverable is something a user can use, or see, in some sense
16:08 < conseo> next usable deliverable is a prototype pipermailharvester
16:08 < conseo> it is a bit big task though
16:08 < conseo> i fill the db already though
16:08 < mcallan> that's maybe too big
16:09 < mcallan> you could have several deliverables (at least), if you plan in those terms
16:09 < mcallan> and like the video says, you *should* plan in terms what the user gets
16:11 < mcallan> the initial arch design was a kind of deliverable.  each of its interfaces (where admin or user involved) is another
16:11 < conseo> yes i agree, user stories are core. we also had that in software engineering in last semester
16:13 < mcallan> to have a new interface that works (like wap) is a deliverable, if you make it so, and actually announce it
16:13 < mcallan> to add something new to that interface is also a deliverable
16:14 < conseo> but the deliverables in scrum are smaller or at least the idea is to define the interface between components in a way to make small parallalizabel jobs (modular design)
16:14 < conseo> or at least the jobs
16:14 < conseo> well i have to  play with it a bit
16:16 < conseo> hmm terming is already a problem which it solves
16:17 < mcallan> so make smaller deliverables.  right now you have the entire harvester as a deliverable, and nobody will hear from you till it's done
16:19 < mcallan> more important, you have no sense of accomplishment till the whole thing is done - or not in any social context
16:20 < mcallan> it's hard to keep motivated like that, so yes i think it would be good (however u do it) to break your work into as many deliverables as possible.  and then actually deliver them to us
16:22 < mcallan> (like i made a show of the remote wiki thing in metagov, and i'll announce when it's done.  probably nobody cares at this point, but i can easily pretend otherwise, and that's enough for me)
16:23 < mcallan> anyway, i say too much
16:23 < conseo> you are right. i agree
16:24 < conseo> it is just that splitting deliverables usually involves some degree of experience i think
16:27 < conseo> mcallan: you can mcallan pull the wap fix
16:40 < conseo> forget about it, i mailed already yesterday. i was a bit drunk yesterday evening :-) anyway my branch is synced with yours
16:41 < conseo> (not while coding, but when i wrote the mail and merged)
17:13 < mcallan> :-) reminds me of woltman's law: never program and drink beer at the same time
17:30 < conseo> :-)
--- Log closed Fri Apr 06 00:00:02 2012