--- Log opened Mon Nov 14 00:00:16 2011
06:25 < mcallan> hopefully this will help: http://www.nycga.net/groups/internet/forum/topic/preventing-a-monopoly-of-voting-media/
07:06 < mcallan> i have replies offlist of occupy-dev.  nothing firm, but still, i feel occupy is the breakthrough for this whole field.  wish i'd talked to the tech folks right from the beginning.  i keep thinking their all against open tech, but these guys are maybe different.  they don't have interests sunk in any project
07:07 < mcallan> away for the day
14:01 < conseo> then get a tv. missing motion picture and documentaries is imo no option. this just counts for me, but i don't know why one would want to miss it
14:02 < conseo> it is not for the enjoyment, but to understand that democracy with economy means something very different from todays politics
14:03 < conseo> occupy is not the end of history and they haven't come up with something sustainable besides the proccess (which is cool, but won't change society unless it is applied to reproduction and real social issues)
14:26 < conseo> my feeling on the forums as well as from statements is that the opinions are quite diverse and lack a common cause (besides unjustice, which is pure superficial (read simple negation) critique, not trying to radically criticize the foundations of society.
14:30 < conseo> i am not saying its bad, i endorse the protests as a collective learning process, but many discussions are not on par with the problems and i think something has to change in the form of protest, before they really get to action (or they don't). i
14:37 < conseo> so take your time, but i think it is worth it for the very thing we do
14:54 < mcallan> conseo: i'm going to watch 10 minutes of the movie now, before i forget :-)
14:54 < mcallan> no time to watch more
14:54 < conseo> i don't know if this is worth it
14:55 < mcallan> i'll watch more later
14:55 < conseo> ok
14:55 < mcallan> i cannot possibly spare two hours, have too much stuff to do.  but if i watch a little, it will be easier to watch again later
14:56 < mcallan> believe it or not, i never watched a film on computer before
14:56 < mcallan> first time for everything
14:57 < mcallan> i won't bother you about occupy anymore, i knew you weren't keen on it, and i should have left it at that
15:12 < conseo> mcallan: i am keen on it, you get me wrong. i just don't think that we simply have to stick to it, but we have study all democratic changes that happen and try to place our technology in the right situations
15:13 < mcallan> they can bring projects together, and save us months (maybe years) of defensive/offensive coding
15:13 < conseo> mcallan: i have demonstrated with them and while i feel that it is still not a revolutionary protest which could change society fundamentally, i think they are the start for heavier protests yet to come
15:14 < conseo> right, but if they have nothing serious to decide, then we can't place our tools
15:14 < conseo> i have talked to an portugese student active in the movement and she has told me that they don't need online tools atm. but rather try to learn about themselves
15:15 < mcallan> see my latest post to ny forums, i list threads where online voting is discussed.  i will go watch a little of movie now...
15:15 < conseo> i just think that they won't easily emplace democracy in society without starting to take over reproduction on a bigger scale than the camps
15:15 < conseo> ok
15:20 < mcallan> there was sound but no picture on windows media player.  some whirlpools or something swirling around.  i have to vacuum the apt, then go get a haircut.  i will try again later
15:21 < mcallan> there are thousands of marxists in occupy, many of whom would probably agree with you.  it's not a movement with any kind of policy of its own
15:21 < mcallan> must go, back in a while
15:36 < conseo> ok. maybe you can install mplayer and run it on that with some ear phones? firefox also has webm support build in, i can convert for you.
15:37 < conseo> can you link those please?
15:37 < conseo> those discussions of marxists?
19:04 < mcallan> i did not keep list of those, but this group in particular has many: http://www.nycga.net/groups/vision-and-goals/
19:04 < mcallan> (many marxists)
19:18 < conseo> hmm, ok.
19:19 < conseo> mcallan: will you tell fragro about how we deal with similiar positions? it reads as if he is interested in something like the difference patching imho
19:23 < mcallan> i will probably try to stay on topic of vote mirroring.  he's a competitor and i don't want to brag about our stuff
--- Log closed Tue Nov 15 00:00:32 2011