--- Log opened Wed Aug 31 00:00:03 2011
00:31 < mcallan> conseo: it's all german, i can't easily follow.  i need to look at fred's software again at some point though.  he has users, always has had i think.  please let me know if you see anything interesting in there.
01:38 < mcallan> conseo: nailed with considerable force: http://lists.electorama.com/pipermail/election-methods-electorama.com/2011-August/028305.html
01:38 < mcallan> now the argument is a target for serious attack, wide open
09:35 < conseo> :-). if your argument boils down to the fact that the counting method is not crucial for democracy, then you are right
09:35 < conseo> your argument sounds very good
09:35 < conseo> i still have doubts though if they will accept a switch towards meaning
09:36 < conseo> which is the scope of philosophy and is not obsolete, even if modernity degrades philosophy to nice "sunday speaches" as adorno has pointed out, its criticism and perspective for thinking is not invalid
09:37 < conseo> i miss thinking, yet one of us alone can barely make useful philosophical insights, i think we need exactly our tooling to start to think together
09:38 < conseo> this is not possible atm. and limits reflection seriously. text work is still bound to the limitations of paper work, yet your diff patching will free it one step further, from threading to patching
09:39 < conseo> let the reflections float :-D
16:53 < conseo> this thing drives me nuts
16:58 < conseo> this is why i wanted to seperate it from our java code, i wouldn't need to understand this maven bloat now
19:17 < mcallan> conseo: what thing drive you nuts?  the addition of the jars should be fairly straightforward now, no?
19:18 < mcallan> (but the arguments matter to me, i cannot code without solid theory underneath. back to coding today)
22:00 < conseo> maven is driving me nuts, i want it to build the jar without all these dependency class files included (it includes them uncompressed)
22:01 < conseo> i can hand remove them, but this is not very sane
22:02 < conseo> sure, i don't say you shouldn't discuss theory, i just say that i don't think that formal people will suddenly start to share your theory if the formal methods and mathematics is what has driven them into e-democracy
22:39 < conseo> yepeee, got it
23:13 < conseo> where is rhino located, i can't find the jar
23:28 < mcallan> i thought the package of jars i downloaded would be sufficient, not sure why you need a custom build
23:31 < mcallan> this particular theory may bring us important users, as well.  i feel there is some give on their side (on list and off).  i am uncomfortable coding without users, so maybe we kill two birds here (theory, practice) with one stone.  it's worth a little more effort.  i have an idea: one more post in reply to kristofer.
23:34 < mcallan> conseo: rhino is part of java 1.6: http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/scripting/
23:41 < conseo> ah ok
23:42 < conseo> mcallan: should i include groofy now? web-harvest is supposed to support it, but our scrapers don't use it yet
23:43 < conseo> 377K Sep  1 04:40 votorola/g/web/webharvest.jar :-)
23:44 < mcallan> i don't think so
23:45 < mcallan> don't include any jar that isn't essential, because it bloats the repo forever and ever
23:45 < conseo> groovy (i always have to think of goofy (f*cking disney) :-P
23:46 < mcallan> it sounds goofy, :-)  it sure is big, too
23:47 < mcallan> like i say, run it first with no jars, and see if it works
23:47 < mcallan> add jars only if it fails
23:48 < mcallan> breaking for lunch, back soon
23:49 < conseo> 5.3M and we need likely some of its dependencies that are not yet in our repo
23:49 < conseo> mcallan: i have followed your strategy as it is the best to keep effort minimal
23:50 < mcallan> (ok)  5.3M, it's a boat anchor.  throw it away! ;-)
23:50 < conseo> mcallan:  where should i put the scraper scripts?
23:50 < conseo> a/diff/feed ?
23:50 < conseo> or seperately in the documentation
23:51 < conseo> (examples)
23:51 < mcallan> in with code if they are uneditable
23:52 < mcallan> conseo: does admin need to edit them?
23:53 < mcallan> (we currently have xf config in code, and it's causing me problems.  i'm trying to find a place for it, but that's my problem)
23:55 < conseo> hmm, so should i leave it for until you have found a proper localtion?
23:57 < mcallan> conseo: it's a different issue, sorry.  do your scripts need to be edited by admin?
23:57 < mcallan> and do you have a default script that will work for most admins, so that editing is optional?
23:58 < conseo> i can make all variables parameters
23:59 < mcallan> just some variables for the admin, ok.  so put the scripts next to the code that uses them, if possible
--- Log closed Thu Sep 01 00:00:07 2011