--- Log opened Mon Feb 20 00:00:06 2012
--- Log opened Mon Feb 20 02:16:35 2012
14:23 -!- scottrigby_ is now known as scottrigby
14:34 < sdboyer> melvster: i am *so* glad you posted http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport
14:34 < sdboyer> that link on occupy-dev
14:34 < melvster> hiya!
14:34 < melvster> :)
14:34 < sdboyer> it's a cogent, consolidated writeup of SO much of what i've been reading
14:34 < sdboyer> and sorta slowly assembling in my own mind
14:35 < melvster> yeah tho it's already a bit dated
14:38 < melvster> even that doc was a bit of a mashup
14:38 < melvster> i really wanted to inlcude lorea in there
14:38 < melvster> but there were just so many speakers
14:38 < melvster> we had to kind of cover a lot
14:39 < melvster> but to cut a long story short
14:39 < melvster> EXCELLENT choice of drupal 7 + RDF
14:46 < melvster> sdboyer: what things do you need to model in RDF?
14:49 < sdboyer> melvster: a lot :P
14:49 < melvster> lol
14:49 < melvster> that's lucky, because a lot of things are already modelled ...
14:49 < sdboyer> i'm at a client office today, so i'm a bit in and out
14:49 < sdboyer> i'll elaborate in a bit
14:49 < melvster> no worries!
14:49 < sdboyer> thanks :)
14:50 < melvster> we can do it on a thread on the ML if you like, im sure there's others can help worth through things
14:50 < sdboyer> at this point my basic expectation is that we're going to look to articulate a full ontology, analogous to that SIOC ontology
14:50 < melvster> SIOC is great
14:50 < melvster> sure
14:50 < melvster> yeah you can make your own ontology that's fine
14:51 < sdboyer> yeah i can give you some examples here, but the full discussion about it is something that needs structure - it's the whole point of our "semantics and syndication" group within FGA
14:51 < sdboyer> well, much of the point
14:51 < scor> we'll map to popular vocabs as much as we can
14:51 < sdboyer> yeah
14:51 < sdboyer> but there are definitely some things which are a bit new
14:51 < scor> FOAF, SIOC, schema, where it applies
14:51 < scor> yeah not everything will be mapped
14:51 < scor> some will be ows only
14:51 < sdboyer> groups will need some elaboration, and i don't even know what's out there in the way of decisions
14:52 < sdboyer> but that's *crucial* for us - capturing decisions that have been taken
14:53 < melvster> foaf : Group
14:53 < melvster> scor: does drupal already use that?
14:53 < scor> not core no - there is no group in core, mostly APIs
14:55 < scor> it uses sioc:UserAccount for example and sioc:Post
14:55 < scor> but it's easy to group people, and map that entity to foaf:Group
14:56 < melvster> a foaf:Group is a collection of Agents, Agent defined as 'things that do stuff, a group, or a person'
14:57 < melvster> ok well then groups seem doable by reusing FOAF then
14:59 < scor> yes, there is overlap, but sdboyer's point was that not everything in fga can be described using existing ontologies… and from starting to model the RDF schema, I can only agree with him.
15:00 < scor> :)
15:00 < scor> I'll post an initial schema in a few days once it's ready for review
15:01 < sdboyer> melvster: hmmm...that might be sufficient
15:01 < sdboyer> but i think the big thing that it misses is process/rules that define the group
15:01 < scor> sure there'll be a mix of sioc, foaf, dc...
15:02 < sdboyer> melvster: have i pointed you at http://projects.occupy.net/boards/6/topics/27 already?
15:02 < melvster> ah yes ... let me reread
15:03 < sdboyer> point being that the rules by which the group operates, norms they've established, etc., are equally as important as a list of members
15:09 < melvster> looks very cool
15:09 < melvster> watching the video
15:11 < melvster> pretty cool video
15:13 < melvster> regarding trust i registered this today :) http://trustengine.org/
15:14 < melvster> yeah i like gamification too
15:15 < melvster> so basically a starting point seems to be nested groups, each group having their own page
15:15 < melvster> essentially you could have a parent group and drupal instance as subgroups as an initial heuristic
15:16 < melvster> then maybe syndicate news based on some kind throttling algorithm ... ie not too little, not too much
15:18 < melvster>  scor: how well does drupal handle federated login as a URI?
15:18 < scor> openID and/or WebID
15:21 < melvster> from the DB point of view does it add a column for the user URI?
15:22 < melvster> im unsure if the main entity is an account URI or a person URI
15:23 < melvster> i think that's the main starting point then you can put people in groups and add other data for each group?
15:24 < melvster> i think the first thing to test might be federated login ...
15:24 < scor> yes
15:36 < sdboyer> yeah i'm a touch concerned about how we represent users within each node...we could get a lot of bloat on the users table
15:36 < sdboyer> if the node is popular, anyway
15:37 < sdboyer> melvster: so it's best to think of the groups we're looking at as on a somewhat separate axis from the network node they live in
15:38 < sdboyer> that is to say, while each are valid groupings, the relationship between drupal site and one of its contained groups != the relationship between one of those contained groups and one of its subgroups
15:38 < sdboyer> s/are valid groupings/do represent a "group"-like concept in the system/
15:48 < melvster> makes sense
15:48 < melvster> reminds me a little of google circles
17:06 < melvster> sdboyer: any thoughts on an economy / market place?
20:59 < Senpai> Wow, cool. http://www.fastcompany.com/most-innovative-companies/2012/occupy-movement
21:47 < sdboyer> hah, that's shn
21:47 < sdboyer> err, shen
21:47 < sdboyer> a somewhat controversial figure atm
21:48 < sdboyer> ...maybe a little much to call him philosopher-in-residence, but it's not surprising they chose to do that
21:48 < sdboyer> he definitely does have a lot of good experience to draw on
21:48 < sdboyer> and is very engaged
21:52 < sdboyer> oh i see, slideshow...hey, there's isaac
--- Log closed Tue Feb 21 00:00:49 2012