--- Log opened Wed Dec 14 00:00:20 2011
00:01 < sdboyer> Andrew_Mallis: jp#NjK2v6Xr&gmAwFV$4
00:02 < sdboyer> Fx58@#Vt4@gASJOkFkr0
01:19 < Amgine> Logo concept for FGA, ciricles within circles -> http://99.occupymediawiki.org/images/thumb/f/f0/Circles1.png/240px-Circles1.png
11:05 < sdboyer> Amgine: oh that's pretty nifty
11:06  * sdboyer is so happy whenever people start doing graphical work
11:06 < sdboyer> it is SO not my forte
11:12 -!- sdboyer is now known as deputymemefinder
11:12 -!- deputymemefinder is now known as sdboyer
11:43 < LP_> tech coop?
12:04 < sdboyer> LP_: what about it?
12:04 < LP_> I'm confused.
12:05 < LP_> If people want to start a coop, shouldn't they just do it?
12:05 < LP_> We already don't know what groups *are*
12:06 < LP_> I'm just totally nonplussed. My coop offers a 20% discount for OWS, but we have no interest in becoming part of it..
12:15 < sdboyer> so the actual idea we had the other day was that it'd be good to put together a group of experienced people to help them with starting co-ops
12:15 < sdboyer> "experienced" being a varied definition - think of it as a co-op incubator
12:15  * sdboyer needs to drop the dash, it's too annoying
12:16 < sdboyer> really i think we maybe went a bit too far with the idea, the more i think about it
12:17 < sdboyer> my original thing i was trying to clarify was how a group like fga could constitute itself in relation to ows & the ga here
12:21 < sdboyer> LP_: but we at least did start with that definitional problem - how can we understand projects & relate them to ows in a good, loosely coupled way
12:21 < LP_> ah, I like the first line.
12:21 < sdboyer> projects/groups/coops/gobbledeguk
12:22 < sdboyer> which one?
12:22 < LP_> group of people to help starting..
12:22 < sdboyer> ahh yeah
12:22 < LP_> I guess.. but there's cultivate.coop, and the NYC worker coop group..
12:22 < sdboyer> so there ya go
12:22 < LP_> and all sorts of stuff! Plenty of people helping to start coops that *need* help.
12:22 < sdboyer> probably best to work with those existing groups
12:23 < LP_> <shrug> That's the way I see it..
12:23 < sdboyer> that works for me
12:23 < LP_> ahh, but now back to the fga, yeah.
12:24 < LP_> The longing for a formalized relationship. :)
12:24 < sdboyer> because the thought of putting that together independently makes me *very* tired
12:24 < LP_> Unrequited Working Group
12:24 < sdboyer> LOL
12:25 < sdboyer> yeah really what i want to understand is how we can be "good ows citizens" while still being a loosely coupled group
12:25 < sdboyer> it sounds like we actually got a bunch of concrete info from heywood, which is what andrew put over the list last night
12:25 < sdboyer> and is very very very cool
12:25 < LP_> I have to think about this more. But at the core of my initial reaction is, who's a good ows citizen? What WG is doing a good job?
12:26 < LP_> AFAICT, none.
12:26 < sdboyer> :)
12:26 < sdboyer> what criteria have been established to define that thus far?
12:26 < sdboyer> and the other issue for fga is, of course, that we can't just tie to one GA
12:26 < LP_> If you don't get cursed out at spokes.
12:27 < sdboyer> g'luck there
12:27 < LP_> I have to think on this. This is part of what OSS is about.
12:27 < sdboyer> whaddaya mean?
12:28 < LP_> Twiki got f'ed up, now there's FOSwiki, OpenOffice/LibreOffice..
12:28 < LP_> Accountability is intuited and premised, but fluid, and there's an escape hatch.
12:29 < sdboyer> now that's an excellent sentence
12:29 < LP_> As long as the org doesn't offer services that control data. So this *really* becomes an issue when stuff like aegir is brought into play.
12:30 < LP_> The escape hatch still works when it's wordpress.com, and I can export, but when it's data collectively owned by a group it's more complex.
12:30 < sdboyer> opens up lots of thoughts in my mind - actually makes me think back to the way that i often see 'solidarity' used in non-technical contexts. at least, the uses i like and i think are sophisticated
12:33 < LP_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity -> instapaper
12:34 < LP_> I will ponder
12:43 < sdboyer> it gets used in *lots* of ways, but the particular connotation i have in mind is "i/we are working towards the same goals and stand with you in key understanding of why the goals are important, but are a separate body who work on our own track and govern ourselves independent from you"
12:58 < sdboyer> LP_: oh forgot to ask - i hear what you're saying about controlling data, but how is aegir specifically related to that?
13:16 < LP_> sdboyer: I don't know a lot about aegir structure, but to a certain extent you're managing someone's data, right? Well, the big diff is that while I used OpenOffice, I can move to LibreOffice and it's fluid, they don't hold or manage any of my data. Capish? If I don't like something you're doing, "go build your own" isn't a very satisfying response. "Here's your data, now go" is slightly better, and if there's something above that I don't know w
13:16 < LP_> is..
13:17 < sdboyer> aegir is actually really about managing site deploys. drupal itself is about managing someone's data
13:17 < sdboyer> this sort of thing is an inherent problem with any server-based technology, though
13:17 < LP_> so the deploys can be remote and whatnot? So org A could have you create an instance, and allow you to update the deploy untill such time they don't?
13:18 < sdboyer> by making it federated we alleviate some of the issue, since it's feasible for people to run and manage their own
13:18 < sdboyer> i see what you're saying
13:18 < sdboyer> we'll offer what amounts to a hosted option at initial launch, i expect, and then work towards making the install process simple enough that people can readily set up their own instances
13:19 < sdboyer> though at that point it's still whatever org you choose "owning" your data, rather than you as an individual
13:19 < sdboyer> so liberating yourself from the network is something you have to solve at a different levl
13:19 < sdboyer> *level
13:19 < LP_> yup!
13:48 < Amgine> sdboyer: Do you have a registered account on the wiki?
13:48 < sdboyer> wiki.occupy.net? no
13:48 < Amgine> Do you have a url you would like people directed to when looking for project contacts for the FGA?
13:58 < sdboyer> Amgine: http://projects.occupytechnology.org/projects/fga/wiki/Getting_Started
13:58 < Amgine> <looks>
14:36 < samkottler> hi sdboyer
16:12 < sdboyer> samkottler: yo
16:28 -!- amgine is now known as Amgine
19:15 < samkottler> sdboyer: sorry was driving home from boston
19:15 < samkottler> sdboyer: como estas?
19:19 < Andrew_Mallis> sdboyer: wouldn't mind hopping in to the hangout as a casual observer.
19:19 < sdboyer> samkottler: no worries
19:20 < sdboyer> samkottler: on a hangout planning the directory site, so i'll have to check in a bit later
19:20 < sdboyer> Andrew_Mallis: i will add you...not sure if i have you on g+ atm
19:20 < samkottler> sdboyer: ah right - I am going to get started on the automation side of things with drush make
19:20 < sdboyer> samkottler: sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
19:20 < Andrew_Mallis> ows@ideograph.ca
19:20 < samkottler> So wanna figure out tech stack before I start
19:20 < samkottler> sdboyer: aka vote for Ruby through and through
19:24 < sdboyer> samkottler: that'll probably be fine :)
19:24 < sdboyer> break down what you have in mind wrt that?
19:34 < sdboyer> Andrew_Mallis: i sent the invite
19:34 < sdboyer> not seein ya
19:56 < samkottler> sdboyer: a parametized job is built within Jenkins, which calls a Ruby script with the params are arguments
19:56 < samkottler> And off we go!
20:05 -!- dan___ is now known as dan__
20:16 < sdboyer> samkottler: fuck fuck. ok, minor fire - when you did work on projects.occupytechnology.org, did you look at the apache config at all?
20:17 < samkottler> sdboyer: naw
20:17 < samkottler> sdboyer: need help
20:17 < samkottler> ?
20:18 < sdboyer> samkottler: nothing you can do really, it's a knowledge question - specifics of a vhost config that i just overwrote
20:18 < sdboyer> all of them being particular to the mfpl servers
20:18 < sdboyer> err, server-specific knowledge question
20:22 < samkottler> sdboyer: ouch
20:22 < sdboyer> yeah :(
20:22 < sdboyer> projects.occupytechnology.org is down as a result, yayz
22:45 -!- Andrew_Mallis_ is now known as Andrew_Mallis
23:30 < hellekin> sdboyer: are you following the OccupyOS thread on P2P-F?
23:30 < sdboyer> hellekin: i'm not
23:30 < sdboyer> link me to that list again?
23:30 < sdboyer> so many lists...
23:31  * sdboyer is finding himself starting to turn inward a bit and just focus on getting the FGA team & project humming
23:32 < hellekin> it's about the OccupyOS thingie.  I can put you in Cc of my response so you can see what is going on...
23:44 < sdboyer> hellekin: that'd be great
23:44 < sdboyer> if you haven't sent it already
23:44 < sdboyer> thanks
23:44  * sdboyer notes that when he sees "algarythms" on a page it's not exactly inspiring about the technical skills of the author
23:51 < hellekin> sdboyer: a is next to o on the Dvorak keyboard layout ;o)
23:52 < sdboyer> hellekin: cept i think that's an attempt at phonetically spelling algorithms :(
23:56 < hellekin> you mean... Dancing olgarythms right?
23:57 < hellekin> :]
23:58 < hellekin> OK I'm braindead...  Gotta crash for a few hours.  It's silly how often it happens to me... Almost once a day.
--- Log closed Thu Dec 15 00:00:36 2011