--- Log opened Sun Feb 24 00:00:31 2013
10:01 < alpha-> wow, a whole lot of people here
12:24 < JoshInc> looking for e-gov devolopment
12:25 < JoshInc> e-gov development
12:25 < JoshInc> anybody out there?
12:39 < conseo> JoshInc: yep
12:41 < conseo> welcome!
12:48 < JoshInc> thanks
12:49 < conseo> what are you interested in?
12:50 < JoshInc> looking for e-gov development..
12:50 < conseo> ok, i have read that. what do you mean with development? tools?
12:52 < conseo> just let me know if i can help you or point you somewhere...
12:52 < JoshInc> sharing tools basic
12:52 < conseo> ok
12:52 < conseo> do you have an example?
12:55 < JoshInc> reference of manage health and education like smart city of ibm
12:57 < JoshInc> something like that in development
12:59 < conseo> hmm, haven't heard of it. do you mean this http://www-03.ibm.com/innovation/us/thesmartercity/  ?
13:00 < JoshInc> yep
13:00 < conseo> not sure which problem you are trying to solve...
13:00 < conseo> efficiency in government?
13:01 < JoshInc> basically
13:03 < JoshInc> development reference of basic tools in government
13:03 < conseo> ok, i am interested in organizing grassroots economics similarly to kickstarter.com but with e-democracy as a permanent process (and not only for one-shot in the beginning to get funding).
13:04 < conseo> why do you need it?
13:04 < conseo> i will get something to eat, be back in 20 mins or so
13:07 < JoshInc> i need to implement in local government
13:11 < JoshInc> do you have any example implementation of government process with kickstarter.com?
13:14 < JoshInc> something like business inteligence in government process?
13:36 < conseo> hmm, not really. i work on http://zelea.com/project/votorola/home.html
13:36 < conseo> mcallan: do you know such systems?
13:37 < conseo> avaaz.com has recently introduced monetary pledges, but most open governance projects max out at a petition platform to allow citizens to raise issues to a plenar hearing (to my knowledge)
13:38 < conseo> i guess you want to implement that from inside current institutions? this mostly depends on which economy you are trying to build. if it is about optimization of government infrastructure, one would need to know what role citizens should play in it?
13:39 < conseo> what does your citizen participation look like?
13:45 < JoshInc> yep, i want implement basic services process inside current institutions with business inteligence tools
13:48 < conseo> what kind of intelligence do you think off? can you point out a concrete technical implementation/product for the management side of things? i am still fuzzy of how you picture the application of this intelligence? :-)
13:48 < conseo> most e-government projects i know about are about petitions and consultation
13:55 < conseo> what did you mean, when you said "sharing tools basic"?
13:56 < JoshInc> Daily data are captured from municipal systems (Accounting, Tax, Education, Health, etc.). After the data is validated and processed, we need to exploit them, or transform a mountain of data into useful information that can assist the government in its day-to-day.
13:57 < JoshInc> Business intelligence; analysis, graphs, dashboards and reports provide important mechanisms for performance evaluation and exploitation of information.
14:02 < JoshInc> sharing basic tools, i talk about practice knowledge
14:05 < conseo> ok, interesting. something like openly well-documented programs (in a dsl)? i guess you are looking for machine learning techniques to analyze your data as well?
14:06 < conseo> sharing here means inside governmental agencies?
14:07 < JoshInc> exactly
14:08 < conseo> metagovernment is more about the participatory aspect of government. economical processes are not yet really accessible on grassroots level (like effectively sharing means of production) to my knowledge
14:11 < JoshInc> i've been see your project zelea, it's interesting
14:11 < JoshInc> opss
14:11 < JoshInc> Votorola*
14:11 < conseo> i picture something like a collectively programmable vote engine with access to data for machine learning (and hence plan huge processes), but your problem is much more realpolitik.
14:12 < conseo> the business side is not really covered by any of these projects to my knowledge: http://www.metagovernment.org/wiki/Active_projects
14:12 < conseo> will have a look elsewhere
14:13 < conseo> mcallan is the main developper of votorola. we develop it for cross-site integration in different web-tools, also on metagovernment.org wiki if you select it
14:14 < JoshInc> nice
14:15 < JoshInc> so i will take a look
14:46 < conseo> JoshInc: this is not about the analytical big data part, but maybe this is helpful: http://bettermeans.com/front/index.html ? it is open-source https://github.com/Bettermeans/bettermeans
14:48 < JoshInc> let's take a look
14:48 < JoshInc> thanks
14:50 < conseo> the data sharing and analytical part would rather be to harnest data from such processes, but you have all these legacy systems you need to access. generally you might want to take cheap commodity hardware with an open-source stack (something like hbase, cassandra) and put something like twitter's storm on top of it for quick an massively parallel real-time processing
14:51 < conseo> but i have only seen that in context with the clojure community and their impressive big data mangling on top of these open technologies
14:52 < conseo> i have no experience in the field yet except for a bit of support vector machines
14:54 < conseo> which scale are you caring about?
14:59 < JoshInc> local government, runs municipal systems
15:07 < conseo> i have no experience there, personally i have only seen dsl level sharing of open-data with clojure, so *maybe* you might ask there for potential open tools and processes. for commercial software i have no clue
15:07 < conseo> the channel is #clojure
15:09 < conseo> but if you find something that fits your needs, could you come back and post a link to it here? i am curious about how you fit your needs :-)
15:23 < JoshInc> sure
15:25 < JoshInc> i seen Bettermeans
15:25 < JoshInc> it's great idea
15:29 < conseo> cool, i think it is promising as well
--- Log closed Mon Feb 25 00:00:49 2013